Trac Lok Performance - TCCoA Forums
 2Likes
  • 1 Post By theterminator93
  • 1 Post By T6Rocket
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
post #1 of 18 (permalink) Old 07-20-2017, 08:04 AM Thread Starter
PostWhore
 
T6Rocket's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Raleigh, NC
Posts: 1,753
Trac Lok Performance

Okay, so after peglegging for 15 years in my 95 T-Bird, I decided my 97 would get a Trac-lok. I found a new NOS Ford unit, and had RobertP install it with Ford LSD additive. I broke it in for 500 miles before even attempting to "test" it.

All said and done, I am not happy with it's performance. It works "pretty well" on a steep, wet road, but it's dry performance is miserable. Occasionally, I have to make a sharp, right turn up a steep driveway. With the open diff, it just sat there and spun the right tire. Now, with the Trac-lok, the same fucking thing! Why isn't the left tire helping push the car? I understand I will still get the inside tire squealing, but why is it just spinning thru the clutches?

On a straight, flat road, it will leave two black marks most of the time. But if there is even the slightest crown in the road, it only spins the left, with a little fishtail to let you know the right wheel is still there. It's like it's lifting the left tire.

Which brings me to another issue: when it spins the left tire, it wheelhops. Actually, it wheelhops a little every time I try to spin the tires. Will replacing the original 69k mile LX shocks take care of that? That is the current plan.

This shit is frustrating, I thought the Trac-lok would solve all of my traction woes. Instead, it's just exposing parts that need replaced along with overall miserable dry performance unless I am on a perfectly straight, flat road.

Thanks,
Al

97 T-Bird LX 4.6 - 80k miles
94 Supra TT Auto - street/strip car
04 CVPI- Brenda's car - 76k miles
Previous Fords:
95 T-Bird LX 4.6 - fully optioned, owned 15 years, 220k miles
96 Cougar XR-7 4.6- Brenda's car, owned 11 years, 187k miles
88 T-Bird 3.8 - first T-Bird, owned 5 years, 206k miles
T6Rocket is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 18 (permalink) Old 07-20-2017, 08:38 AM
Kind of slapped together
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Bossier City, LA
Age: 63
Posts: 4,839
Well, if you still have the factory, 20 year old bushings still in the rear, it may be bad bushings; wheel hop is more due to the BUSHINGS yielding than anything.

And if they're popping, the TL won't help much.

RwP

Fuelly
RalphP is online now  
post #3 of 18 (permalink) Old 07-20-2017, 10:45 AM
Seasoned PostWhore
 
theterminator93's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: North Ridgeville, Ohio
Age: 31
Posts: 9,041
Garage
I'm not sure if it's typical with these but when I had mine rebuilt the shop added extra clutches to help stiffen it up.

If you jack the rear end up, you shouldn't be able to spin one tire if you try to break the lug nuts free. If it slips there's clutch issues; even the 165,000 mile trac-lock I pulled from my father in law's 97 when we were parting it out had enough grip left to keep the tire from turning as I broke the lugs free.

And Ralph is almost certainly on the money (as usual ) about the most likely cause behind the wheelhop. Rubber bushings (even new ones) aren't going to keep you from wheelhop on these cars. Worn out bushings just makes it a whooooole lot worse. Poly bushings will help immensely.
CDsDontBurn likes this.

-Brandon
97 Laser Red Thunderbird LX 162k, Stage 2 4.6L 2v N/A | 300 BHP (255 RWHP, 290 RWTQ) | 13.95 @ 97.58 | Build details | Pics at the Lorain Assembly plant
98 Black Mark VIII 160k, stock daily driver
07 Redfire Fusion V6 SEL 178k, for the wife
Gone but not forgotten: 96 Mark VIII, 94 Cougar XR7, 93 Mark VIII

TCCoA's resident pilot since 2014
Once you have tasted flight, you will walk the world with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been and there you long to return. -Leonardo da Vinci

Last edited by theterminator93; 07-20-2017 at 10:51 AM.
theterminator93 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #4 of 18 (permalink) Old 07-20-2017, 12:03 PM Thread Starter
PostWhore
 
T6Rocket's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Raleigh, NC
Posts: 1,753
The thing is, I never had wheelhop before the Trac-lok on this car, or any other MN-12 we've owned.

Exactly which bushings are you referring to - the end links, or all of them?

I was thinking it was the shocks being a little weak. I do notice this car's back end drops more than any other MN-12 we've had when you put 100+ lbs in the trunk. It drops an inch or two.

RobertP had said he used extra clutches in the past for the race cars, and that makes them wear a whole lot faster. He stopped doing it.

Al

97 T-Bird LX 4.6 - 80k miles
94 Supra TT Auto - street/strip car
04 CVPI- Brenda's car - 76k miles
Previous Fords:
95 T-Bird LX 4.6 - fully optioned, owned 15 years, 220k miles
96 Cougar XR-7 4.6- Brenda's car, owned 11 years, 187k miles
88 T-Bird 3.8 - first T-Bird, owned 5 years, 206k miles
T6Rocket is offline  
post #5 of 18 (permalink) Old 07-20-2017, 01:40 PM
Seasoned PostWhore
 
jco1385's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Mobile, AL
Posts: 3,741
Garage
Shocks are not holding the car up, that's the springs. If it's sitting low it may be a broken or worn out spring. You can buy poly bushings for all locations in the rear with the exception of the inner-upper that adjusts the camber and the IRS subframe bushings. I run all poly and still get wheel-hop on hard acceleration.

1994 Thunderbird - 2000 4.2L M5R2 now has 55k

1995 Thunderbird - 2002 Alum 4.6L SVO - Awaiting transplant... (Parts donor)

1996 Cougar - 2004 3.9L 4R70W
jco1385 is offline  
post #6 of 18 (permalink) Old 07-20-2017, 03:09 PM Thread Starter
PostWhore
 
T6Rocket's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Raleigh, NC
Posts: 1,753
Quote:
Originally Posted by jco1385 View Post
I run all poly and still get wheel-hop on hard acceleration.
Thanks, you just saved me a bunch of work that I wasn't going to do anyway!

Not too much is worn out on this car, has 69k miles. Front suspension was replaced. It only sits low when I put a bunch of weight in the trunk.

Al

97 T-Bird LX 4.6 - 80k miles
94 Supra TT Auto - street/strip car
04 CVPI- Brenda's car - 76k miles
Previous Fords:
95 T-Bird LX 4.6 - fully optioned, owned 15 years, 220k miles
96 Cougar XR-7 4.6- Brenda's car, owned 11 years, 187k miles
88 T-Bird 3.8 - first T-Bird, owned 5 years, 206k miles
T6Rocket is offline  
post #7 of 18 (permalink) Old 07-20-2017, 03:17 PM
Seasoned PostWhore
 
jco1385's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Mobile, AL
Posts: 3,741
Garage
Mine squats with weight in the trunk as well. It's past the axle so it exaggerates it a bit more.

1994 Thunderbird - 2000 4.2L M5R2 now has 55k

1995 Thunderbird - 2002 Alum 4.6L SVO - Awaiting transplant... (Parts donor)

1996 Cougar - 2004 3.9L 4R70W
jco1385 is offline  
post #8 of 18 (permalink) Old 07-20-2017, 05:47 PM
4th Gear Poster
 
Kenz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: SYR, NY
Posts: 323
It sounds like you may have too much Trac-Loc additive. How much did you use and what fluid? If you use too much of that stuff it will end up acting the same as an open rear end. Most synthetic fluid now had an additive in it, you throw an entire bottle of the Ford additive in and the clutches are not going to grip very hard or at all.

96 Cougar Sport - T45 Swapped
Kenz is offline  
post #9 of 18 (permalink) Old 07-21-2017, 07:13 AM Thread Starter
PostWhore
 
T6Rocket's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Raleigh, NC
Posts: 1,753
I will check with Rob to see if the fluid also has an additive. He did say it's the same fluid he has always used, and it was synthetic. I wasn't crazy about the fact it was the 85/140, that is a little heavy for my taste, even being synthetic.

It appears it's not easy getting the old fluid out since the diff is supported by the back cover?

Al

97 T-Bird LX 4.6 - 80k miles
94 Supra TT Auto - street/strip car
04 CVPI- Brenda's car - 76k miles
Previous Fords:
95 T-Bird LX 4.6 - fully optioned, owned 15 years, 220k miles
96 Cougar XR-7 4.6- Brenda's car, owned 11 years, 187k miles
88 T-Bird 3.8 - first T-Bird, owned 5 years, 206k miles
T6Rocket is offline  
post #10 of 18 (permalink) Old 07-21-2017, 11:38 AM Thread Starter
PostWhore
 
T6Rocket's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Raleigh, NC
Posts: 1,753
Rob said the fluid did have the additive. I agree with Kenz that all that combined is too much additive.

What is the easiest procedure for changing the oil? Just support the diff with a jack, and remove the cover and supports?

Maybe I'll get some Lucas oil, plus the Ford additive.

Al

97 T-Bird LX 4.6 - 80k miles
94 Supra TT Auto - street/strip car
04 CVPI- Brenda's car - 76k miles
Previous Fords:
95 T-Bird LX 4.6 - fully optioned, owned 15 years, 220k miles
96 Cougar XR-7 4.6- Brenda's car, owned 11 years, 187k miles
88 T-Bird 3.8 - first T-Bird, owned 5 years, 206k miles
T6Rocket is offline  
post #11 of 18 (permalink) Old 07-21-2017, 02:52 PM
MA Chapter Director

Administrator
 
Rodeo Joe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Franklin, MA
Age: 62
Posts: 7,934
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by T6Rocket View Post
What is the easiest procedure for changing the oil? Just support the diff with a jack, and remove the cover and supports?

Al
That's it Al. The rear support is the only one you have to worry about.

Joe

It's not a 97 Sport, it just looks like one!

Mass. TCCoAers, Send me your info!

I buy all my Ford parts from 93 lx.

Member of the TCCoA Damage Control Team.

R.I.P. Johnny Langton 1975 - 2011
Rodeo Joe is offline  
post #12 of 18 (permalink) Old 07-21-2017, 03:21 PM Thread Starter
PostWhore
 
T6Rocket's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Raleigh, NC
Posts: 1,753
But it appears to be tight up in there to add fluid, even with a mini-pump, even tighter than the Toyota. That's why Rob pre-filled it before installing the pumpkin, lol!

Upon doing some more research, the "experts" say having the proper Ford Trac-lok additive is the most important for the Ford diffs, and that the type of fluid used doesn't matter as much, ie: whether or not it has some infamous "additive" already in it.

Rob said these cars do tend to hop if both wheels are spinning. Anyone else get wheelhop with a Trac-lok? Our Crown Vic's solid axle Trac-lok works perfect.

I need to do more "testing" of the diff. It didn't put it in there to use as a performance diff mainly, but to help in poor traction scenarios. It did fail me once in that respect, but that was an extreme right turn up a steep concrete driveway. But it still should have made it up from a standstill instead of having to back up and getting a little momentum.

Al

97 T-Bird LX 4.6 - 80k miles
94 Supra TT Auto - street/strip car
04 CVPI- Brenda's car - 76k miles
Previous Fords:
95 T-Bird LX 4.6 - fully optioned, owned 15 years, 220k miles
96 Cougar XR-7 4.6- Brenda's car, owned 11 years, 187k miles
88 T-Bird 3.8 - first T-Bird, owned 5 years, 206k miles
T6Rocket is offline  
post #13 of 18 (permalink) Old 07-21-2017, 05:33 PM
Rob
Seasoned PostWhore
 
Rob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Hubbard, TX
Age: 37
Posts: 3,902
Send a message via AIM to Rob
On my last 3.73 used track lock I used once quart of Lucas oil stabilizer (it says no friction modifier needed) 80w90 the rest of the way. pulled it from my wrecked car and it's still waiting to be installed in my cousins mark

I'll probably run Lucas in the rear end I got from big Mike a few years ago. Can't wait to get that thing installed!

-Rob
RIP '94 Amber Fire Pearl Metallic Thunderbird on Bullitts [email protected]
96 Sport '02 Explorer PI with ported heads, 90MM LMAF, DirtyDog Marauder TC, Lasota tune, Jmod, Magnaflow mid-mount with X, no cats. Urethane drivers motor mount. HIDs!
Rob is offline  
post #14 of 18 (permalink) Old 07-21-2017, 06:13 PM
4th Gear Poster
 
Kenz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: SYR, NY
Posts: 323
You need to support the differential, and then remove the rear brace & cover to remove the fluid. If you have a garage, good jack, and tools it isn't too bad.
It's easy to add the fluid through the fill hole with the proper fill pump once it's all together.

I read some other Ford forums on and off. Most of the guys with Trac-Locs now are saying to run straight synthetic diff fluid; because it's normally got enough friction modifier in it already. If you need the additive you will know, you can feel the clutches pop and bind.

Next time I change mine I'm going to try running without it. If I get binding, put a 1/4 or 1/2 a bottle in. I put an entire bottle in my truck last time, and unless I'm on snow its not spinning both wheels. With my Cougar I used half, and it's grabbing pretty hard.

96 Cougar Sport - T45 Swapped
Kenz is offline  
post #15 of 18 (permalink) Old 07-21-2017, 08:19 PM
Seasoned PostWhore

Super Moderator
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Tinton Falls, NJ
Age: 36
Posts: 7,430
Garage
Send a message via AIM to MadMikeyL
For filling the diff, I have a tool that is basically a cylinder with a piston attached to a rod sticking out one end, and the other end has a hose that screws off. The piston holds half a quart, so you open it up, pour half a quart of gear oil in, then close it up and shove the hose in the hole and push the piston in, which pushes all the fluid into the diff, and repeat until it is full.

As for the trak-lok additive, the only purpose of that is to allow the clutches to slip some to prevent them from chattering around turns, so too much definitely could cause your issue. Once the clutches have soaked in gear oil with the friction modifier in it, they no longer need anywhere near as much of the friction modifier, if any at all. Whenever I rebuild build a diff with fresh clutches, I use conventional gear oil with the friction modifier for about 1000 miles, then drain that all out and replace it with synthetic with no friction modifier. I have never put friction modifier back into any diff unless they were brand new clutches, and I have never had any issues with it.

-91 Cougar LS, coming soon, complete overhaul with a 427" Windsor.
-90 XR7 5-speed black on black w/sunroof, MP2, coated rotors, double intercooler, 15%OD, ported heads, comp stage 1 cam, 85mm TB, 90MM LMAF, 80# injectors, and ported big valve heads
-98 Mark VIII LSC, Procharger P600b, TR3650 swap and 3.73s.
-90 SC Automatic rustbucket winter beater
-97 Tbird Sport 4.6 Nice weather daily driver
-"Your buddy Mike is INSANE!" -ClintD's dad
MadMikeyL is online now  
post #16 of 18 (permalink) Old 07-31-2017, 08:53 AM Thread Starter
PostWhore
 
T6Rocket's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Raleigh, NC
Posts: 1,753
Well, I did some more "testing". It did so well on the straight line test, that I decided to do a donut. Ended up perfectly parked in a parking space!

Equal black marks from both sides. Not a hint of wheelhop either.

If I can get my Toyota wheels with old 28" drag radials to fit they soon will be bald!

Al
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 7-31-2017 9-36-41 AM.jpg (393.4 KB, 4 views)
File Type: jpg 7-31-2017 9-38-20 AM.jpg (176.0 KB, 3 views)

97 T-Bird LX 4.6 - 80k miles
94 Supra TT Auto - street/strip car
04 CVPI- Brenda's car - 76k miles
Previous Fords:
95 T-Bird LX 4.6 - fully optioned, owned 15 years, 220k miles
96 Cougar XR-7 4.6- Brenda's car, owned 11 years, 187k miles
88 T-Bird 3.8 - first T-Bird, owned 5 years, 206k miles
T6Rocket is offline  
post #17 of 18 (permalink) Old 07-31-2017, 09:50 AM
PostWhore
 
Woodman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Duluth, MN
Age: 45
Posts: 1,896
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by T6Rocket View Post
Well, I did some more "testing". It did so well on the straight line test, that I decided to do a donut. Ended up perfectly parked in a parking space!

Equal black marks from both sides. Not a hint of wheelhop either.

If I can get my Toyota wheels with old 28" drag radials to fit they soon will be bald!

Al
Based on the tire marks, I wouldn't call that "perfectly parked", LOL!

Glad that it's working though!

97 Thunderbird LX (The GT Bird)
2003 Explorer WAP block with Modular Head Shop "street ported" heads and Stage 2 PI NA cams, 75mm Accufab throttle body, C&L upper intake plenum, Kooks 1.75" primary/3" collector headers, 2.5" full exhaust with mid mount Magnaflow dual in/out muffler, 24lb/hr injectors, 80mm MAF, Tuning from Don @ www.lasotaracing.com, CAI that feeds from fenderwell. Jmod, 3.73:1 TL in Mark VIII carrier, Mark VIII aluminum LCAs, 93 Mark VIII driveshaft, PBR brakes (soon to be Cobras), 18x9 wheels with 35mm offset, 255/40/ZR18 Tires, Front and Rear strut/shock bracing, GR-2 shocks, Eibach 1.5" springs, 1989 SC front and rear sway bars.
Woodman is offline  
post #18 of 18 (permalink) Old 07-31-2017, 10:07 AM Thread Starter
PostWhore
 
T6Rocket's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Raleigh, NC
Posts: 1,753
Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodman View Post
Based on the tire marks, I wouldn't call that "perfectly parked", LOL!
That was the start, not the finish! It's hard to see how far the tracks go from the brightness.

Al
Woodman likes this.

97 T-Bird LX 4.6 - 80k miles
94 Supra TT Auto - street/strip car
04 CVPI- Brenda's car - 76k miles
Previous Fords:
95 T-Bird LX 4.6 - fully optioned, owned 15 years, 220k miles
96 Cougar XR-7 4.6- Brenda's car, owned 11 years, 187k miles
88 T-Bird 3.8 - first T-Bird, owned 5 years, 206k miles
T6Rocket is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the TCCoA Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in











Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome