Ford Will Stop Selling Nearly All North American Cars - TCCoA Forums
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post #1 of 26 (permalink) Old 04-25-2018, 11:49 PM Thread Starter
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CONFIRMED! Thunderbird to be revived for 2022!

Source: Ford Crossover Company? Report Says Ford to Swap Cars for CUVs [UPDATED] - The Truth About Cars

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You like Fusions, Foci, and Fiestas? Well, you better get to shopping. Pretty soon, Ford’s car lineup will be down to just two – the Mustang and the upcoming Focus Active.

Yes, you read that correctly

The Blue Oval automaker is going all in on trucks and crossovers, as well as electrified vehicles, as it plans to remake three-fourths of its lineup by 2020. This all comes from a Q1 earnings report.


Not only will 75 percent of the lineup turnover, but four new trucks and SUVs will be added. Ford will start a rollout of battery-electric vehicles in 2020 with the goal of having six on the market by 2022.

It also appears that hybrid versions of the F-150, Mustang, Escape, and upcoming Bronco will be available.

The biggest news, of course, is the shift to a lineup that’s almost exclusively made up of crossovers, SUVs, and trucks. Ford did also say it’s exploring what it calls “white space” vehicles – vehicles that would combine a higher ride height with larger cargo areas – sort of like crossovers do now. We’d imagine that the company is thinking of hatchback-type vehicles here.

Ford is doing this because it estimates that 50 percent of American retail sales will be SUVs by 2020. It’s also reallocating $7 billion of capital investment from cars to SUVs.

To be clear, the automaker’s upcoming BEVs and hybrids may actually not be crossovers — they may be what we’d call “cars.” There could even be a mid-size hybrid or BEV sedan. But it appears that gasoline-fueled sedans are dead going forward.

Ford also unveiled a new driver-assist package in the vein of Toyota’s Safety Sense system and mentioned (in vague PR terms) initiatives to speed up product-development cycles.

Okay, now that the objective facts are out of the way, it’s time for the editorializing. To this news, we say: What the $#%*, Ford?


Yes, we know. The crossover craze can’t stop, won’t stop. Mid-size sedans are in trouble. We’ve covered it extensively on TTAC. But this seems insane. The market for sedans may be shrinking, but it’s not zero nor does it seem likely it ever will be.

The Mustang survives, of course, because it’s an icon, and it remains popular. There might be riots in Dearborn if it was to be cancelled.

But this news means no more Fusion, Fiesta, or Focus. Essentially, Ford will no longer be a full-line automaker. It’s ceding space in key segments (shrinking segments, but still key) to the competition, and it’s also taking a risk – if the crossover craze abates for whatever reason, the Dearborn folks will have no sedans to show.

Maybe the bean counters and internal sales analysts are right, and Ford will benefit from this move. But we’re shocked and saddened over here – Ford’s current mix of sedans and hatchbacks is quite good. Not to mention we don’t want to be doomed to a future where the only choice is crossover A or crossover B.

We’ve reached out to Ford and will update if we hear back. UPDATE: A Ford spokesman provided us with this statement, which is similar to what’s in the report: “Consumer buying habits are shifting from small cars to small SUVs – here and around the world. To respond to the needs of our customers and grow our business, we are significantly expanding our North America utility portfolio while also exploring new “white space” vehicle silhouettes that combine the best attributes of cars and utilities – such as higher ride height, space and versatility.”


Related
Huge F-Series Sales Are Propelling Ford's Market Share Higher as Every Ford Car Fades
July 11, 2016
In "Features"
The Next Mach 1 Will Be Electric, but Will It Be a Mustang? UPDATE: High Performance Electric SUV?
January 15, 2018
In "Electric Vehicles"
Death Comes to the Lincoln Continental?
March 14, 2018
In "Features"
Posted in Future Vehicles, Industry, New Cars, News Blog, Sales
Tagged as Fiesta, Focus, Ford, Fusion, Mustang

Oops

-Matt
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post #2 of 26 (permalink) Old 04-26-2018, 06:49 AM
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Oops
Lol, got that right!

Big shake up, let's see how this turns out.

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post #3 of 26 (permalink) Old 04-26-2018, 07:23 AM
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Yup.

Bye, bye, Ford cars.

Oh, and I also saw recently where Chevy is working on a mid-engined Corvette! Wow!

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/20...py-photos-news

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post #4 of 26 (permalink) Old 04-26-2018, 08:20 AM
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I fell asleep half way thru that article. It's not a surprise that almost all new vehicles are crossovers - that's all you see on the road these days. People want a car that they can throw their dog, or stuff from the Home Depot in the back. They are all a bronzish-gray color, and nobody has interest in cleaning them because they are too busy looking at their phones.

Rare these days is the person that takes pride in their car, wanting it to be clean and polished. They are just "units" that get you from point A to point B. And thank God they make remotes, otherwise half the people couldn't find their car in the parking lot because they all look the same!

Al

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post #5 of 26 (permalink) Old 04-26-2018, 09:50 AM
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post #6 of 26 (permalink) Old 04-26-2018, 09:56 AM
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Ford Will Stop Selling Nearly All North American Cars

So Ford announced today that it's "shuttering the last of its US sedan brands as it shifts its focus to international markets, trucks and SUVs. It is a drastic move, as the company will be phasing out sedan models that have a long history with the company, including models like the recently revamped Ford Taurus." They also say that Lincoln will also probably go away as well, and that "the only non-SUV, non-truck cars Ford will sell in North America will be the Mustang and the as-yet-unannounced Focus Active."

So I'm wondering what will happen to the value of existing Lincolns, especially the Mark VIIIs. Also, the Cougars and T-birds. Thoughts?

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post #7 of 26 (permalink) Old 04-26-2018, 12:23 PM
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Joe merged your previous thread with a much less appropriately named thread on the same topic. (See post #6 at the thread below)

http://forums.tccoa.com/983-ford-tcc...ed-2022-a.html

The value of existing Lincolns, Cougars and Tbirds will not change as a result of this move by Ford. For proof just look at all the various old Oldsmobile's and Pontiac's and Saturns sitting around. Very few of those have any value.

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post #9 of 26 (permalink) Old 04-26-2018, 12:54 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by T6Rocket View Post
I fell asleep half way thru that article. It's not a surprise that almost all new vehicles are crossovers - that's all you see on the road these days. People want a car that they can throw their dog, or stuff from the Home Depot in the back. They are all a bronzish-gray color, and nobody has interest in cleaning them because they are too busy looking at their phones.

Rare these days is the person that takes pride in their car, wanting it to be clean and polished. They are just "units" that get you from point A to point B. And thank God they make remotes, otherwise half the people couldn't find their car in the parking lot because they all look the same!

Al
Pretty much. I heard the rumor of this happening about a month ago, and while I have my opinions, the writing is definitely on the wall when 9/10ths of newer cars you see are S/CUVs. I find it particularly ironic that you see these things at Home Depot yet I'm betting most drivers don't know which end of the hammer to use on their DIY projects


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So Ford announced today that it's "shuttering the last of its US sedan brands as it shifts its focus to international markets, trucks and SUVs. It is a drastic move, as the company will be phasing out sedan models that have a long history with the company, including models like the recently revamped Ford Taurus." They also say that Lincoln will also probably go away as well, and that "the only non-SUV, non-truck cars Ford will sell in North America will be the Mustang and the as-yet-unannounced Focus Active."

So I'm wondering what will happen to the value of existing Lincolns, especially the Mark VIIIs. Also, the Cougars and T-birds. Thoughts?
The Focus Active is a crossover, so really the only car car in the lineup will be the Mustang. Lincoln is sticking around, but they're going to lose their sedan line as well.

What will happen to the values of these? Uhh, zilch? The brand that made mine doesn't even exist anymore, period, and it's not fetching any more or less money than a Thunderbird. The whole notion of car collectibility being impacted from a brand death is a myth, there are no conclusive examples of that ever making a difference on value on decades old models.

Edit: I merged the threads but retained your topic title.

-Matt

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post #10 of 26 (permalink) Old 04-26-2018, 01:16 PM
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They'll regret that when gas prices shoot up over $5/gallon and people flock to the econobox [brands] like they did 10 years ago. An oil crisis seems to happen every decade or two; just sayin'...

All I know is I'm not buying any new "big ugly fat things" from any manufacturer! Definitely feeding my MN12/FN10 habit as long as I can.
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post #11 of 26 (permalink) Old 04-26-2018, 01:39 PM
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I already have a "big ugly fat thing" in the shape of a 2017 Explorer. In actuality it gets only slightly worse mileage than the Lincoln MKX we traded in for it.

But yea, my MN12 habit is alive and well too.

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Best 1/4: 1,320 nanoseconds @ 670,616,629.2 miles per hour

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post #12 of 26 (permalink) Old 04-27-2018, 02:00 PM
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Originally Posted by theterminator93 View Post
They'll regret that when gas prices shoot up over $5/gallon and people flock to the econobox [brands] like they did 10 years ago. An oil crisis seems to happen every decade or two; just sayin'...

All I know is I'm not buying any new "big ugly fat things" from any manufacturer! Definitely feeding my MN12/FN10 habit as long as I can.
..and that's why they'll have those electric/hybrid vehicles waiting in the wings.

It runs 100% of the time 80% of the time.
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post #13 of 26 (permalink) Old 04-27-2018, 07:23 PM
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The days of keeping ICE cars alive are numbered. Best we can hope for old cars is that they make some kind of retro-fit electric motors/batteries, and really, they probably will. That way, we at least get to keep the old/classic bodies on the road.

Yeah yeah, I know, it could be decades before gasoline is outlawed, if ever, but as demand dwindles, which it will as soon as a supercharging station infrastructure is in place, gas prices are going to go sky high, and pretty much everybody will jump on the electric wagon (see what I did there ).

I wonder if Musk hasn't thought about how many more of his motors/batteries he would sell, and how much more money Tesla would make, if he'd just offer them separately at a decent price, along with maybe a select number of retro kits for popular ICE vehicles, or maybe a universal kit of some sort. It seems that strategy would accelerate (see what i did there, Pt. II) the realization of his vision of the masses going full electric.

P. S. Yes, I know about this, but it's not direct from Tesla, backed by Tesla, etc.

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post #14 of 26 (permalink) Old 04-27-2018, 09:15 PM Thread Starter
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I think a car enthusiast mass suicide pact would be preferable to EV retrofits.
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post #15 of 26 (permalink) Old 04-28-2018, 10:45 AM
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I think a car enthusiast mass suicide pact would be preferable to EV retrofits.
Yeah it sucks to think that all you will be seeing is trucks and SUV's. I did my part in December for purchasing a new 39-40 MPG commuter car for Linda and I to use. Guess if I'm going to buy a Lincoln I need to do it sometime in the next couple years before I retire.



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post #16 of 26 (permalink) Old 04-29-2018, 11:43 AM
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The idiots who "flock to econoboxes when gas prices go up" are just that, idiots. Same as all the fools who fell for the "Cash for Clunkers" scam. "Your gas savings will pay your car payment!" Nope, not going to happen. If you sell a 20 year old car that averages 20mpg, but you have base liability insurance, no car payment, and are a fair enough mechanic to keep it running, your annual costs on the car, including gas, are maybe half that of the payments alone. If you drive 200 miles a week like I do (typically), your 20mpg car costs you 10 gallons of gas, while your 30mpg car costs you 6.7 gallons of gas. So, even when gas was $4/gallon, it saved you $13/week, but cost you more in insurance, payment, etc.

Keep your car, drive it, enjoy it.

The reason CUV's and SUV's are so popular is they don't have to comply to the same CAFE regulations as cars do (yet) and they are much more useful to people.
Ford's doing what their marketing trends tell them. Lots more Edges, Escapes, and Explorers on the road than Fusions, Focus, and Taurus.

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post #17 of 26 (permalink) Old 04-29-2018, 12:33 PM
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I see this as solely as a CAFE stab, if have no cars then they only have Truck CAFE to worry about, which thanks to the F150 is the majority of Ford.

The only car Ford has made that I want since 1998, they won't let me nor could I afford. Ford GT.

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post #18 of 26 (permalink) Old 04-29-2018, 12:56 PM Thread Starter
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The idiots who "flock to econoboxes when gas prices go up" are just that, idiots. Same as all the fools who fell for the "Cash for Clunkers" scam. "Your gas savings will pay your car payment!" Nope, not going to happen. If you sell a 20 year old car that averages 20mpg, but you have base liability insurance, no car payment, and are a fair enough mechanic to keep it running, your annual costs on the car, including gas, are maybe half that of the payments alone. If you drive 200 miles a week like I do (typically), your 20mpg car costs you 10 gallons of gas, while your 30mpg car costs you 6.7 gallons of gas. So, even when gas was $4/gallon, it saved you $13/week, but cost you more in insurance, payment, etc.

Keep your car, drive it, enjoy it.

The reason CUV's and SUV's are so popular is they don't have to comply to the same CAFE regulations as cars do (yet) and they are much more useful to people.
Ford's doing what their marketing trends tell them. Lots more Edges, Escapes, and Explorers on the road than Fusions, Focus, and Taurus.
Preach!


Honestly I have no real dog in this fight, I wasn't going to buy a new Fusion or a new Focus or a new anything from anybody, so I can't complain about what Ford is or isn't doing. The luxury and curse of being an enthusiast is most of us see past marketing BS when judging a car that fits our desires and most of us are good enough at maintenance(even if that means staying on top of it and taking it in for service) and care to the point that our vehicles essentially will last forever. Which means IF we bought new(which we don't, since we know used is a better value) Ford et al aren't getting our big checks very frequently, which is the only "make more of this car" message they care about.

I'm just annoyed that Crossovers get exempt from tint laws as light trucks. You can't see around or through them to traffic or obstacles ahead like you could when everyone just had cars. I'm not one to call for legislation but the light truck classification is clearly a mockery these days, and any passenger CUV or SUV or even "crew" cab pickup should be reclassified as a car and undergo the same scrutiny. I suspect the standard tint is a selling point to a sizable chunk of buyers too, it would be interesting to see where sales would go if that were outlawed

Crossovers are booming now for a few reasons. The perception of usefulness is what marketing sells, but based on anecdotal real world observations, what the average majority of owners actually utilize in these can easily be fulfilled by a sedan. Sort of like "off road capability" that marketing sold in SUVs in the 90s - how many "Explorers" went "exploring" off road with their first owners? - The seating height is the most practical reason people have chosen them, but then again, if what buyers simply needed was utility and high seating, then the logical choice would be..... A minivan! - a segment declining faster than sedans, hmm.

The real reason they're selling now is because they're trendy. To counter Brandon's point somewhat, Crossovers get nearly as good of mileage as Sedans do now. 2008 had way more pickup based SUVs powered by V8s and large V6s, and because CAFE had even more lax rules regarding "light trucks" back then, they weren't optimized for any efficiency even in aero and drivelines. Here in 2018 SUVs of yore aren't what are booming, it's car based crossovers, and there weren't near as many in 2008 as there are now, and it's a segment that is perceived as less charted, more exciting and more fresh than others. Once crossovers mature and become not only the only choice on the new car market, but also effectively the only choice on the used car market 5-10 years from now, people will get as complacent and contemptuous of them as every other trend that has swept the industry.

-Matt
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post #19 of 26 (permalink) Old 04-29-2018, 04:53 PM
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I assume the Mustang will become the new stock car that they will race in the future?

This leaves some room for more electric cars to enter the market. Made by who I'm not sure.

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post #20 of 26 (permalink) Old 04-29-2018, 07:28 PM
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Preach!


Honestly I have no real dog in this fight, I wasn't going to buy a new Fusion or a new Focus or a new anything from anybody, so I can't complain about what Ford is or isn't doing. The luxury and curse of being an enthusiast is most of us see past marketing BS when judging a car that fits our desires and most of us are good enough at maintenance(even if that means staying on top of it and taking it in for service) and care to the point that our vehicles essentially will last forever. Which means IF we bought new(which we don't, since we know used is a better value) Ford et al aren't getting our big checks very frequently, which is the only "make more of this car" message they care about.

I'm just annoyed that Crossovers get exempt from tint laws as light trucks. You can't see around or through them to traffic or obstacles ahead like you could when everyone just had cars. I'm not one to call for legislation but the light truck classification is clearly a mockery these days, and any passenger CUV or SUV or even "crew" cab pickup should be reclassified as a car and undergo the same scrutiny. I suspect the standard tint is a selling point to a sizable chunk of buyers too, it would be interesting to see where sales would go if that were outlawed

Crossovers are booming now for a few reasons. The perception of usefulness is what marketing sells, but based on anecdotal real world observations, what the average majority of owners actually utilize in these can easily be fulfilled by a sedan. Sort of like "off road capability" that marketing sold in SUVs in the 90s - how many "Explorers" went "exploring" off road with their first owners? - The seating height is the most practical reason people have chosen them, but then again, if what buyers simply needed was utility and high seating, then the logical choice would be..... A minivan! - a segment declining faster than sedans, hmm.

The real reason they're selling now is because they're trendy. To counter Brandon's point somewhat, Crossovers get nearly as good of mileage as Sedans do now. 2008 had way more pickup based SUVs powered by V8s and large V6s, and because CAFE had even more lax rules regarding "light trucks" back then, they weren't optimized for any efficiency even in aero and drivelines. Here in 2018 SUVs of yore aren't what are booming, it's car based crossovers, and there weren't near as many in 2008 as there are now, and it's a segment that is perceived as less charted, more exciting and more fresh than others. Once crossovers mature and become not only the only choice on the new car market, but also effectively the only choice on the used car market 5-10 years from now, people will get as complacent and contemptuous of them as every other trend that has swept the industry.
I will say that while the "off road" capability isn't a draw at all for me, nor do I think my AWD 1999 Subaru Forester nor my wife's former 2016 Escape, and now 2018 Edge are going to do anything at all off road. The AWD in the Subaru is far superior even though it's nearly 20 years older than that of the Escape or the Edge, which are primarily FWD and will shift torque rearward on slippage, but... as I've discovered trying to get it out of my driveway, it's not instant, nor very effective if both fronts are slipping. Where my Subaru, being a manual transmission, is a constant 50/50 split, and can shift more when slippage is detected, and it got out of the same snowy driveway that challenged our Escape with no issues.

However, that all being said, my wife likes new cars that I don't have to wrench on, so she gets the new ones when the payments get to the right point. The Escape and Edge make much more sense for our family than a Fusion, Focus, or Taurus however. The Escape is analogous to the Focus, the Edge more along the lines of the Fusion, and the Taurus to the Explorer in size comparisons (car to SUV not withstanding). So, had we bought a Focus instead of the Escape back in 2016, we would have lost some interior room, some storage space behind the seats, and also some capability as we live in northern Minnesota and the AWD is handy at least 9 months out of the year. Yes, FWD will do the job (as will RWD, up till recently, all my winter cars have been snow tire equipped RWD), but AWD does do the job better. When we got the Edge, we looked at the Fusion, similar pricing, but much less utility. We have three large dogs that fit MUCH better in the back of the Edge than the Escape we had, as well as the increased rear seat room in the Edge over even the Fusion. There's more room in the back seat of the Edge than in my 2002 Crown Victoria I had regarding knee room at least.

I'd say that most people give no cares about any "off road" marketing hype (which I honestly haven't really seen in anything Explorer, Edge, or Escape except maybe a drive on a beach), but about being able to haul more stuff and sit more comfortably. The three row Explorers are a great alternative to a Minivan, get similar miles per gallon, and have a much better "social status" image than a minivan does too.

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post #21 of 26 (permalink) Old 04-29-2018, 07:40 PM Thread Starter
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The question is, will crossovers eventually get get same "social status" minivans have now? There was a time when minivans were cool, directly on the wave of full size vanning culture of the 70s(analogous to the faux SUVs that crossovers are), which killed the station wagon. It only takes the next generation who grow up around them to rebel from their parents and turn their hip conveyances into dorkmobiles.

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post #22 of 26 (permalink) Old 04-29-2018, 08:40 PM
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Originally Posted by XR7-4.6 View Post
The question is, will crossovers eventually get get same "social status" minivans have now? There was a time when minivans were cool, directly on the wave of full size vanning culture of the 70s(analogous to the faux SUVs that crossovers are), which killed the station wagon. It only takes the next generation who grow up around them to rebel from their parents and turn their hip conveyances into dorkmobiles.
No, no... Having been born in 74 and a very impressionable 10 or so when the Minivan as we know it was first introduced, they were never, ever considered "cool". They were the replacement to Station Wagons, which your dad bought your mom to go grocery shopping with or to take the whole famdamily to Disney World in without ever looking at a map once, only knowing it's "That way". They sold great because they sat higher than station wagons, generally got slightly better MPG than the station wagon, and still fit easily in your standard car sized garage better than a full sized van did. They were (as they are now) a useful, utilitarian vehicle that could haul the entire family, as well as all your groceries, had low front and rear overhang, and were easier to park in a crowded lot than the Vista Cruiser.

While we're on it, the station wagon was also never "cool" even if it had a 454 or 455 or 460 under the hood to move it's 2.5 ton weight. Yeah, we liked the rear facing seat, we liked being far enough back that dad couldn't backhand us if we were acting up, but they weren't "cool" then any more than Minivans were, or the new CUV's. We didn't get an Edge because it's cooler than the Escape, we got it because it's bigger, gets essentially the same MPG, and is more useful. "coolness" wasn't even a thought, we weren't excited, we just rolled up and said, "Whatcha got?" We were actually looking at a used Explorer Sport (twin turbo 3.4 is much cooler than an EB 2.0), but the pricing on the Edge was MUCH better, so we got that.

97 Thunderbird LX (The GT Bird)
2003 Explorer WAP block with Modular Head Shop "street ported" heads and Stage 2 PI NA cams, 75mm Accufab throttle body, C&L upper intake plenum, Kooks 1.75" primary/3" collector headers, 2.5" full exhaust with mid mount Magnaflow dual in/out muffler, 24lb/hr injectors, 80mm MAF, Tuning from Don @ www.lasotaracing.com, CAI that feeds from fenderwell. Jmod, 3.73:1 TL in Mark VIII carrier, Mark VIII aluminum LCAs, 93 Mark VIII driveshaft, PBR brakes (soon to be Cobras), 18x9 wheels with 35mm offset, 255/40/ZR18 Tires, Front and Rear strut/shock bracing, GR-2 shocks, Eibach 1.5" springs, 1989 SC front and rear sway bars.
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post #23 of 26 (permalink) Old 04-29-2018, 09:21 PM Thread Starter
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Cool is the wrong word, but talking "social status", there was indeed a time when minivans bested station wagons in social status, the first generation buying them hated station wagons, and associated them with their parents tastes. You made my point, you were a child when the minivan debuted, and today you consider them below crossovers with social status. With families increasingly using crossovers the same stigma attached to wagons and minivans will inevitably pass on to the next generation.

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post #24 of 26 (permalink) Old 04-29-2018, 11:56 PM
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Originally Posted by MadMikeyL View Post
"Any color you want, as long as its black" has come full circle to "Any car you want as long as its this bland nondescript box"
... with a 4cyl Turbo.

FWIW, I know that the SF Bay Area and coastal CA in general is a different vehicle market than most of the rest of the US. If this news is in fact true, I strongly suspect that the sales volumes of the Focus RS (which you see fairly often here in CA since it's smaller, is a convenient vehicle w/ the hatch, and posts decent perf #s) is going to take a hit... much like when they EOL'd the Lancer EVO.
https://www.leftlanenews.com/ford-fo...rs2-94956.html


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post #25 of 26 (permalink) Old 04-30-2018, 04:03 PM
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Hi guys
Don't worry the focus and the fusion are safe just come out good old Germany where the production never stops,because Europe is not a big suv or cuv market.
A friend of mine works at ford where they built the focus and mondeo aka fusion and there is no word of slowing down production.just shipped over what is needed here if they cut out here.
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post #26 of 26 (permalink) Old 04-30-2018, 05:15 PM
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https://jalopnik.com/you-can-get-an-...-no-1825650235

Under Invoice Fire sales on the Focus RS and ST.
Hrm. Maybe I should convince my wife to replace the S4 which we never use (literally 2K mi/yr since her company has a shuttle) with an RS we won't ever use unless I decide to commute with it

Also, the RS comes with free HG replacements
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